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Sniper 6:32 Thu Dec 22
Help regarding withholding payment from a tradesman

I posted some info on another thread but I won't bump that - wanted some more specific advise

We've had a kitchen fitted. Stupidly we didn't get the guy to list every specific detail on the initial quote - so, as an example, we told him we had worktops and upstands but he quoted for fitting worktops and has now added fitting upstands to the costs.

We've paid lots of additional costs as they are justified - he fitted some flooring and boxes in some pipes (again the Boxing in was discussed but not itemised on the initial quote). However, I don't think the finish in the upstands is suitable. They have mitred joints in the ends with gaps round them and are chipped. He claims this is a decorating job and there is no problem with them. I've shown them to different local supplies in howdens wicked etc and they all agree it's not good enough. He says we have 7 days to pay the remainder or he'll take us to small claims.

My understanding is that you have to pay the initial quote or you are in breach of contract and then you have to take action to reclaim some of the payment. We have more than covered the cost of the original quote but have not paid all the extras on top of this - can we withhold payment for those as they were not officially agreed prices at the start?

I tried discussing with him but he became angry and abusive and stormed out - which I recorded on my phone just in case.

Anyone have any experience of this either as tradesman or customer?

Hammer and Pickle 6:42 Thu Dec 22
Re: Help regarding withholding payment from a tradesman

Email him with photos of the work that needs to be done and inform him he'll be sent the remainder when you are satisfied.

charleyfarley 6:57 Thu Dec 22
Re: Help regarding withholding payment from a tradesman

CAB is your friend, or a free 1/2 hour consultation with a solicitor
a lot of solicitors offer these services

Fifth Column 7:00 Thu Dec 22
Re: Help regarding withholding payment from a tradesman

Did you wipe your knob on him?

CrowleyHammer 7:03 Thu Dec 22
Re: Help regarding withholding payment from a tradesman

Fifth Column 7:00 Thu Dec 22

Why do you think he became angry and stormed out?

FrancoisVanDerElst 7:15 Thu Dec 22
Re: Help regarding withholding payment from a tradesman

Give him the opportunity to re fit the upstands correctly( sounds like you already have) and then tell him ,as suggested in the other thread, to cease contact and that you expect to hear from his solicitor shortly
I imagine he will get through Christmas start a new project and do no more, if he does take you to court it sounds as if you would have the stronger case
I'm a self employed carpenter and would always go back to correct anything as best as possible and would only consider court action if I was owed(unreasonably)a large amount

Vexed 7:16 Thu Dec 22
Re: Help regarding withholding payment from a tradesman

Get someone else in to do the work properly. Pay them. Deduct this from the original blokes quote and pay him the rest. If he don't like it tell him to take it to small claims and to fuck off. He won't bother you go you separate ways. Thank uncle Vexed for sorting your problems.

Sniper 9:09 Thu Dec 22
Re: Help regarding withholding payment from a tradesman

Thanks very much

I'm perfectly happy withholding payment and letting him go to small claims. He's added some other bits too - for example, we were given and end of line duff batch of handles that were badly scratched m. So we removed them to get replacements from the kitchen company - but they don't make them any more we basically got the last lot so that's why they were all shit. The carpenter asked if we wanted them out back on and we both told him it not to worry and we'd do it - but he did it anyway and charged £20

But my concern is what the law states around what you have to do regarding paying the initial bill and reclaiming it and withholding payment of additions - as I understand it you have to pay any agreed amount and then claim back what you are owed but I don't know how this works with additional charges - can you just refuse to pay them?

bruuuno 11:31 Thu Dec 22
Re: Help regarding withholding payment from a tradesman

Just kick the fuck out of him

stepney hammer 11:41 Thu Dec 22
Re: Help regarding withholding payment from a tradesman

bruuuno 11:31 Thu Dec 22

FrancoisVanDerElst 11:54 Thu Dec 22
Re: Help regarding withholding payment from a tradesman

I doubt very much you have anything other than an informal quote and bill which are not a contract so of course u can refuse to pay it if you are not happy

clarky 11:58 Thu Dec 22
Re: Help regarding withholding payment from a tradesman

Sounds like you're holding back for small stuff that could be corrected easily.
Just pay the guy his money minus the upstands, I'm sure he'll accept that.
if he takes you to small claims and you lose (and it sounds like you probably will) you could end up paying his legal fee's as well

J.Riddle 12:03 Fri Dec 23
Re: Help regarding withholding payment from a tradesman

Whatever is in the written contract stands. A verbal contract also stands if agreed, but impossible to prove unless you have a witness(s) or filmed it say.

One way to help prove the shoddy work is to get/pay an expert to provide a report perhaps a chartered surveyor or an established experienced joiner/carpenter, one preferably who is a member of various industry associations to report/quote and put right the previous tradesman's work and have them note to such on the quote and invoice. Take photographic documentation of before and after as testament. Get the work corrected, which in in itself is testament to the fact that the work needed correcting.

If you receive his claim from the small claims court, (and you may not unless fairly significant amount as it will cost a few hundred approx depending to amount to file his claim), you will have the option to counterclaim for corrective works as invoice paid and or other expert report expenses as applicable.

clarky 12:06 Fri Dec 23
Re: Help regarding withholding payment from a tradesman

I could be wrong here but don't you have to give the tradesman one chance to correct it before you can get someone else in and charge him for it?

Crassus 12:30 Fri Dec 23
Re: Help regarding withholding payment from a tradesman

Have the work assessed and as stated costed by an alternative professional. Then forward the additional quote telling him that you will with hold that from the final settlement. Give him a reasonable time frame to make good, say 14 days, after which you will engage the alternative chippy. Note that his failure to respond in writing will be taken as his acceptance.

Document it all, send it recorded delivery to his address upon the original quote and await a response.

onlyoneclydebest 2:10 Fri Dec 23
Re: Help regarding withholding payment from a tradesman

Unfortunately we don't have his side of the story

Chigwell 6:22 Fri Dec 23
Re: Help regarding withholding payment from a tradesman

So he fitted the upstands and boxed in the pipes without first telling you that his quote did not include these items? And before he produced that quote, you had told him you wanted these extras done?
Obviously you haven't shown us the quote, but a District Judge is likely to think that he accepted and quoted for the job including those extras, if he did not point out before fitting them that he would be charging more for them. With that and the substandard workmanship, I think that you have good reason not to pay in full.
As it sounds like you are going to need a professional to put things right, get a quote for the remedial work and tell the first guy that if he sues you for unpaid work, you will counterclaim for the amount of the second quote.
It's best to avoid court of course, and getting the second quote will give you an idea of how much you should pay the first bloke: don't hold out for every last penny if he is willing to compromise.

Sniper 11:52 Fri Dec 23
Re: Help regarding withholding payment from a tradesman

Thanks everyone

Other stuff he's added for includes things like charging £30 to drive to the kitchen suppliers (10 minutes away) as they forgot to supply legs for one of the units. Even though I said I'd call them to get them to deliver. And then said I'd go myself - but he insisted

We also paid for plumbing and electrical work - apparently the sink came with non standard pipe work so he's charged £60 extra for piping to connect to a washing machine waste - but told us nothing about it at the time.

He also fitted broken flooring which has a hole in it, which he says was broken in the packaging - it may we'll have been but knowingly fitting it (its quick step flooring) means our floor isn't water proof and charged for that fitting too

I actually think a lot of the issues are from work done by Joan apprentice - the kid was really nice but quite new and I know he cut the upstands as I saw him doing it. I wouldn't mind about any of the issues if he'd just said at the time so we could sort it but he didn't. We even have doors that don't line up and handles not fitted straight

hammerspain 12:10 Fri Dec 23
Re: Help regarding withholding payment from a tradesman

I have been a self employed carpenter for too long to think about, & if i behaved like that would have no work. Really dont get how people can work like that, £30 to pick up some legs for units????
Only thing I can think, is that people give a cheap quote to get work, then cut corners/ add extras to get more out of punters, & punters pay up because they just want job finished & trades out of their house!

Westside 12:57 Fri Dec 23
Re: Help regarding withholding payment from a tradesman

(and you may not unless fairly significant amount as it will cost a few hundred approx depending to amount to file his claim)

Just not true. You can use the Money Claim Online Service, which has minimal costs. £70 fee for up to £1,500 claim, for example.

I've used this a couple of times successfully. If you are successful, you get your fee back from the defendant.

Sniper 1:24 Fri Dec 23
Re: Help regarding withholding payment from a tradesman

Spain

Yeah that could be it. His plasterers ballsed up at the start and don't skim enough of the wall so when he fitted units there were gaps around them. We told him the walls needed redoing, so that set him back by a week and I think that just fucked him
Off so much he's just been an arse about it all. But not having a kitchen for an extra 10 days with two small children was far more of a ball ache for us!

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